Comments on: Marathon Training : Lessons Learned and Mistakes Made at Derby Festival Marathon

By: Lisa Sabin

Lisa Sabin — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:45:51 +0000

I have heard this before. Like you and many others I tend to want to push myself in my workouts. My last few long runs have been 9-9:30. I know that building an aerobic base is critical. It takes patience and trusting the process. Knowing something and putting it into practice are two different things. Thanks for the book recommendations.

By: garyd

garyd — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 03:06:49 +0000

@ homebydawn and regivizz – thank you for reading and commenting, hopefully we can all learn together as we continue onward.

@ lisa – I’m guessing you read my Predicting Race Performances blog, I want to highlight a quote form that lesson here on this post:

[quote] In 2001, I changed my approach to training (thanks to Jan Callahan at UNL)… improvement. 3:27:58. I do not have a 10k time close to the 2001 marathon to see if it was predictive though.

In 2003, I changed some more things. Primarily, I ran my long runs slower. My long runs were approximately 1 minute slower than my marathon pace (even slower if completed at Todd’s Road). And I cut out my track work and added in more “steady” runs. (Steady = just below to just above threshold). Volume also went up using the “long weekend” approach instead of a 1 long run per week approach (again: thanks to Jan). [unquote]

The idea of running slower during your long runs to run faster is such a hard concept to understand. Jan forced me to run most of my runs under 160bpm no matter what my pace. When I started, I was running 9:30ish miles… not easy for me at the time. It proved itself that year.

And has even more since. In 2006, I had several runs a week that were run at 140 to 150 bpm (read posts about aerobic threshold for why) which meant I was running at plus 10min per mile pace. Knowing I had to run 6:52pace, it was frustrating, but there is a purpose behind it.

Bottom Line: if your short races 5k, 10k and 10mile don’t project to what you marathon is ending up at, it is most commonly in my experience, a situation where your steady state endurance is underdeveloped… something that I commonly see in people always training around their Lactate Threshold. (although there is a time for that pacing too)

Just some thoughts for you to consider. For more developed thoughts on this check out Arthur Lydiard, Bobby McGee and Gordo Byrn’s writings and philosophies. I would start with Lydiard though.

By: Lisa Sabin

Lisa Sabin — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:42:39 +0000

Great information. When I look at the prediction for my marathon time, it looks like I’ll miss my goal by 5 minutes. That’s disappointing and I don’t want to believe it. http://www.berkshiresports.org/index.php?ID=raceperformanceprediction.

I’ve always found that I run faster 5Ks. If I followed my 5K time across, I should be able to run 3:40. But my 10 mile time predicts 3:55. My best time is 3:49 and I’m shooting for 3:50. I think I’m a little more fast twitch and I’m praying that I’ll defy predictions!

By: regivizz

regivizz — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:15:40 +0000

Very helpful post. Thanks!

By: homebydawn

homebydawn — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:25:54 +0000

The “racing consciousness” was a new concept for me, and makes a lot of sense. I am going to make that an intentional part of my training this year, working towards a fall marathon.
Thanks for a thoughtful and informative post!

By: garyd

garyd — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:55:01 +0000

Thanks Brad. I’m not trying to train for any specific race right now, but I am still trying to apply some of these lessons. For instance, yoga/core strengthening is a priority and I also plan to race (running races, maybe triathlon) quite a bit this year…. just hop in and race.

One thing looking back at this is the idea of building a “racing consciousness”… that is something that needs some more thought. The book “magical running” by Bobby McGee does a good job of walking people through this topic.

By: Brad Hefta-Gaub

Brad Hefta-Gaub — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:15:25 +0000

Great post Gary! Not only are these well summarized lessons learned, but, you included links to a ton of great reference material… I need to dig through all of these!